Comments on: Gates of Heaven

By: gveers

gveers — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:34:10 +0000

Fair enough on the age comment. But it was still his first film, which was the main point there.

Have you seen it yet? I actually said he was probably going for different tones in the first and second half, but it’s not so clear a transition or effect as I would have liked. I think you have to see it to determine how tight the overall vision is, which is ultimately what this particular point is about.

By: Brian

Brian — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:21:54 +0000

Also, Spielberg directed “The Sugarland Express” when he was 27 and “Jaws” when he was 28. So I’m not sure how “the tender age of 27″ is all that relevant a comment. Bryan Singer completed “The Usual Suspects ” when he was 30.

I have to agree with Will on this one. It seems impossible that Morris set out to make this film with no clue of how he was going to proceed and ended up editing it together in this completely scattershot manner. It’s more likely that he intended to strike two different tones with the film.

By: gveers

gveers — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:21:48 +0000

The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, and we were in 5th grade in 1990. So at the very least it was still topical. Besides, you need SOMEplace to use your F-14s on…Russia was as good a pick as any back then.

I remember there was so much crap in the introduction that when it came time to finish the story (or the school year ended, or whatever – who knows how it worked back then), we had not actually gotten to Russia yet. So I hastily threw in a few paragraphs about crossing the Pacific Ocean and the mission being a huge success. I guess it was more of a character-driven work.

By: Brian

Brian — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:12:55 +0000

Invaded Russia? In 5th grade? The Cold War was over when we were in 5th grade. Why would we be invading Russia? Also, I’m sure Russia had the military power to handle a few F-14s.

By: gveers

gveers — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:29:25 +0000

Hey, I wrote some of my finest stories in fifth grade. I had one where my friends and I invaded Russia in F-14s. I don’t think I’ll ever top the sheer energy, the daring inventiveness, of that work.

To your point: there are millions of films that do not bother to have a thesis in the first place. And this was Morris’ first film, which he made at the tender age of 27. It was half made on a dare (another director promised to eat his shoe if Morris completed it). Morris went on to become quite respected, but forgive me some skepticism as to how this one came together.

And, you know, I don’t hate this film. I just don’t share the deep affection that you and your boy Ebert have for it. My loss, I suppose.

By: Will

Will — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:53:12 +0000

Man, you think Morris made this documentary like a fifth grader writes a book report, changing his thesis as he goes along. That seems exceedingly unlikely to me.

By: gveers

gveers — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 03:54:12 +0000

I’m just not convinced that Morris knew, himself, what he was going for when he made it. It seemed like he put together some scenes towards the beginning, and said “well this lays a logical foundation, and we’ll just be really sarcastic with all of it.” Then as he moved on to the latter half, he really wasn’t sure what to do with his remaining material. I don’t think that’s at all impossible.

Obviously none of us will ever know for sure what he intended. But I just don’t feel it, man.

By: Will

Will — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 03:43:15 +0000

But the filmmaker has to think about the film as a whole, and thus makes a choice that there will be a tone change in the middle of the film. You can write a story that you think will end one way, but then change the ending. But then you may have to rework the beginning of the story to have it work with the new ending. I still think the idea that Morris just changed his mind on tone midway through and kept the first half’s tone the same (out of laziness, I guess?) despite his change of heart is close to impossible. This change is almost surely intentional.

By: gveers

gveers — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:39:41 +0000

I’m talking about the conceptualization of the story, here. At some point, the creator has to conceptualize his work in a linear fashion, because that’s the way it’s going to be viewed. Unless he’s just going to Pollack his way through it.

By: Brian

Brian — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:07:47 +0000

The editing process is actually NOT linear. Just like in the filming process, sequences may be edited and re-edited out of order. It’s entirely possible to have final cuts of middle-scenes, for example, before the beginning is done.